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View Full Version : who has gone down at a track day?



up in smoke
Sep 4th, 2008, 08:38 PM
just curious what the days per crash ratio is.

ill start . 6 days 0 crashes lots of [oh sh1t that was close]:D

id rate my self as a fast B or a slow A rider

Calkidd
Sep 4th, 2008, 08:52 PM
"A" rider
10-12 track days
1 minor low side with minor damage no injury.
1 moderate crash with moderate/major damage injured shoulder and thumb.

yoageallen
Sep 4th, 2008, 09:19 PM
10-12 track days
No crashes!
Knock on wood!
D rider in an A costume!:zzloser:

Deus
Sep 4th, 2008, 10:35 PM
The only way to ensure one does not crash at a track day is not to go to a track day. :D

up in smoke
Sep 4th, 2008, 10:45 PM
The only way to ensure one does not crash at a track day is not to go to a track day. :D

the only way to ensure that one does not die is to not live.:D

up in smoke
Sep 4th, 2008, 10:58 PM
10-12 track days
No crashes!
Knock on wood!
D rider in an A costume!:zzloser:

he chose to lay it up.

PRTSMN
Sep 4th, 2008, 11:00 PM
the only way to ensure that one does not die is to not live.:D

that sounds like some shakespear b/s

up in smoke
Sep 4th, 2008, 11:02 PM
that sounds like some shakespear b/s

then call me shakespeare.:D

poach
Sep 5th, 2008, 08:14 AM
Talking about crashing is bad juju....just sayin'.

Big Kahuna
Sep 5th, 2008, 10:51 AM
Talking about crashing is bad juju....just sayin'.:fun_83: :laugh:

Kyles R6
Sep 5th, 2008, 11:18 AM
instead of attaching all the pics ill post a link to another site. i had a bad highside last yr

http://www.r6messagenet.com/forums/track-day-riders-pro-am-racers/131016-1st-bad-crash.html

poach
Sep 5th, 2008, 11:36 AM
^^^frame/swinger sliders may have reduced the damage a little bit...

Wile_E_Coyote
Sep 5th, 2008, 11:41 AM
^^^frame/swinger sliders may have reduced the damage a little bit...

Werd. I added swingarm sliders to my bike. I'd like to get some front axle sliders to.

poach
Sep 5th, 2008, 11:45 AM
^^cheap insurance fosho....

Kyles R6
Sep 5th, 2008, 12:11 PM
no i doubt it. it was sliding on the track and then when it hit the dirt it flipped so i dont think they would have done anything at all....theyre race fairings anyways. thats why i got them

poach
Sep 5th, 2008, 12:12 PM
ok....

SOUN1
Sep 5th, 2008, 02:25 PM
Track 3, SOUN 0, got my A$$ handed to me, all lowsided....My ZX6R will be ready for the next trackday..the 10 is getting toooo expensive to repair, I'm running out of duct tape!

tripleplay6543
Sep 5th, 2008, 03:24 PM
Been to 3... Low sided on a morning session this past labor day. No major damage, but a broken clip on ended my day. My sliders saved pretty much everything.

l8-apex
Sep 5th, 2008, 03:32 PM
The only way to ensure one does not crash at a track day is not to go to a track day. :D

This is NOT true.

A rider.
3 years racing WSMC.
2 years racing AFM.
2 AFM Four Hour Endurance Races.
I'd estimate between 100 and 125 days on track.

0 crashes.

It just depends on how far out on the edge you are willing to hang. Also, taking your time to come up to speed, overall and on any particular day on a track, is the most important thing to avoid crashes. When I started racing I was very happy if I could reduce my lap times by 1 or 2 seconds each weekend out.

Now watch me go out and crash on my next day at the track... go away bad juju....

Big Kahuna
Sep 5th, 2008, 03:47 PM
This is NOT true.

A rider.
3 years racing WSMC.
2 years racing AFM.
2 AFM Four Hour Endurance Races.
I'd estimate between 100 and 125 days on track.

0 crashes.

It just depends on how far out on the edge you a willing to hang. Also, taking your time to come up to speed, overall and on any particular day on a track, is the most important thing to avoid crashes. When I started racing I was very happy if I could reduce my lap times by 1 or 2 seconds each weekend out.

Now watch me go out and crash on my next day at the track... go away bad juju....Nice, if I had known all this before the Friendship Ride I wouldn't have let you ride behind me all day, probably mentally critiquing my poor riding ability. :weirdface:

Jester
Sep 5th, 2008, 03:50 PM
just curious what the days per crash ratio is.

ill start . 6 days 0 crashes lots of [oh sh1t that was close]:DYou have just sealed your fate grasshopper.....:weirdface:

yoageallen
Sep 5th, 2008, 05:43 PM
If you use a little restraint there may never be a crash at the track. Barring Murphy's law and all.

Old School
Sep 5th, 2008, 05:56 PM
5 days and 0 Crashes, but 1 on the road.

Devlausdan
Sep 5th, 2008, 07:58 PM
I'm sure I'm going to get ***** for this but here goes.

You have an accident on the streets due to rider(s) judgement and/or bike failure. And you're pushing the boundaries of physics.

You have an accident on the track due to rider(s) judgement and/bike(s) failure. And you're pushing the boundaries of physics.

My accident on the street was because of poor judgement to a decreasing radius.

My accident on the tract was because of I was pushing harder than I should.


So this being said, you shouldn't have an accident on the street if you don't push the boundaries.

And you shouldn't have any accident on the track if you puff puff through it and not do a jackass move like me.

:D

up in smoke
Sep 5th, 2008, 08:11 PM
I'm sure I'm going to get ***** for this but here goes.

You have an accident on the streets due to rider(s) judgement and/or bike failure. And you're pushing the boundaries of physics.

You have an accident on the track due to rider(s) judgement and/bike(s) failure. And you're pushing the boundaries of physics.

My accident on the street was because of poor judgement to a decreasing radius.

My accident on the tract was because of I was pushing harder than I should.


So this being said, you shouldn't have an accident on the street if you don't push the boundaries.

And you shouldn't have any accident on the track if you puff puff through it and not do a jackass move like me.

:D

how do you explain l8-apex . i think he will puff puff right by all of us.:)

up in smoke
Sep 5th, 2008, 08:21 PM
i think the key is knowing the fundamentals of riding. when i first started racing MX i broke a lot of bones. i though to go fast ,just twist the throttle. not so! iv applied my findings from mx to street and track riding. :)

PRTSMN
Sep 5th, 2008, 08:47 PM
I'm sure I'm going to get ***** for this but here goes.

You have an accident on the streets due to rider(s) judgement and/or bike failure. And you're pushing the boundaries of physics.

You have an accident on the track due to rider(s) judgement and/bike(s) failure. And you're pushing the boundaries of physics.

My accident on the street was because of poor judgement to a decreasing radius.

My accident on the tract was because of I was pushing harder than I should.


So this being said, you shouldn't have an accident on the street if you don't push the boundaries.

And you shouldn't have any accident on the track if you puff puff through it and not do a jackass move like me.

:D

are you pickin on me...:D

Devlausdan
Sep 5th, 2008, 11:46 PM
are you pickin on me...:D

No I wasn't. I was referring to me.

It was something that Chris and Dustin from TrackDaz said in the morning meeting that help set the tone for the day for me. They said, "ITS NOT A RACE." And, "There's nothing to win. No Prize." They said, "Trackday was for having fun, enjoying yourself, and being with your friends." Make it through the day.

Let me say this though. Them Trackdaz guys were really fun and friendly to hang out with. Chris was the hardest working guy out there. Rudy Cortez was seen sleeping in the back room. That was cool because that left the track open with no control riders out there. I don't think Dave from Zoomzoom and the guys ever came and chat with us at TH. Nor did Ti2TT.

So I rode and had fun with a bunch of friends. Never pushing or going past the breaking point of losing control and crashing. Honestly, I think I only rode at 70-80% and I had a blast of a track day that way. It didn't matter if I was in the lead or behind Kidmoua and BigDyang. Which them two kept the lines block good enough to keep me from passing them too. Them two knuckle heads almost killed themselves going at each other. And if them two would had crashed into each other right before we enter the chican, I would had no place to go around them but to crash into them too. BigDyang's lines were predictable so you could follow right up close to him within 2-4 feet. Kidmoua's line were harder (erratic) to predict and you had to watch him and yourself. But like I mention to BigD, following them both in third position was hard because the third guy has to not only watch the front guy's line but also the second guy's line and continuously make adjustment riding behind them. Don't know if that made sense. But I feel that the second guy just has to make adjustment to his line by watching the front guy. Well, the third guy has to make adjustment to the front and the second guy's line in the event that the first guy makes a cut and the second changes his line into the third guy's line. <--- that's a mouth full. Rambling rambling.

But truthfully, I still had fear of tires slipping out from underneath me like at TH. :)

PRTSMN
Sep 6th, 2008, 01:55 AM
No I wasn't. I was referring to me.

It was something that Chris and Dustin from TrackDaz said in the morning meeting that help set the tone for the day for me. They said, "ITS NOT A RACE." And, "There's nothing to win. No Prize." They said, "Trackday was for having fun, enjoying yourself, and being with your friends." Make it through the day.

Let me say this though. Them Trackdaz guys were really fun and friendly to hang out with. Chris was the hardest working guy out there. Rudy Cortez was seen sleeping in the back room. That was cool because that left the track open with no control riders out there. I don't think Dave from Zoomzoom and the guys ever came and chat with us at TH. Nor did Ti2TT.

So I rode and had fun with a bunch of friends. Never pushing or going past the breaking point of losing control and crashing. Honestly, I think I only rode at 70-80% and I had a blast of a track day that way. It didn't matter if I was in the lead or behind Kidmoua and BigDyang. Which them two kept the lines block good enough to keep me from passing them too. Them two knuckle heads almost killed themselves going at each other. And if them two would had crashed into each other right before we enter the chican, I would had no place to go around them but to crash into them too. BigDyang's lines were predictable so you could follow right up close to him within 2-4 feet. Kidmoua's line were harder (erratic) to predict and you had to watch him and yourself. But like I mention to BigD, following them both in third position was hard because the third guy has to not only watch the front guy's line but also the second guy's line and continuously make adjustment riding behind them. Don't know if that made sense. But I feel that the second guy just has to make adjustment to his line by watching the front guy. Well, the third guy has to make adjustment to the front and the second guy's line in the event that the first guy makes a cut and the second changes his line into the third guy's line. <--- that's a mouth full. Rambling rambling.

But truthfully, I still had fear of tires slipping out from underneath me like at TH. :)

i was kidding.. I have that fear on the streets i wish i knew how to overcome it.

Blakester
Sep 8th, 2008, 04:34 PM
20+ trackdays and I have lowsided twice, first one on my very first trackday. And my most recent high side, which was definitely my worst this past sat. all at BW. I think I really push my limits and exceed them at times..:eek:

desmolvr
Sep 8th, 2008, 06:27 PM
A rider 25+ track days no crashes.

aaw749r
Sep 8th, 2008, 06:53 PM
High B Low A rider.
7 track days & I've never been down.

ok ok now the truth

2 low sides - first one on my first track day in turn 3 at SOW and the second one on day #6, the trackdayz academy @ SOW.

Both times on the left side, both times I was able to ride away unharmed and minimal damage to me and the bike. Destroyed the helmet in the first one.

On the first one I just got to into it and pushed it too hard in the turn.

On the second one I was only riding about 7/10 and I just goofed up and snapped the thottle open which lightned the front end and down I went. At first I thought someone hit me but it was me that hit me.

up in smoke
Sep 8th, 2008, 07:17 PM
[ snapped the thottle open which lightned the front end and down I went]

low side from opening the throttle:confused2:

Lovedoc
Sep 8th, 2008, 07:22 PM
I've also done 20+ tds with 2 lowsides. Both occured the day I jumped to the faster group. I get a lot more anxious with the unfamiliar faster traffic, and screws up my game. When I'm riding comfortably, I think the risk is a lot lower.

Injuries? A fractured tooth, still bugging me 6m later, and costing quite a bit more than a set of 209s.

Bike repairs, also some financial pain there.

desmolvr
Sep 8th, 2008, 07:22 PM
Yes throttle low side is when you come off of the brakes early then on the gas. The front gets light when you turn in and away you go.

Calkidd
Sep 8th, 2008, 07:22 PM
[ snapped the thottle open which lightned the front end and down I went]

low side from opening the throttle:confused2:
I was trying to see that too....In your original thread you said you high sided, but then said your front tire tucked? Did you low side and then the bike caught and flipped you over?

up in smoke
Sep 8th, 2008, 07:25 PM
Yes throttle low side is when you come off of the brakes early then on the gas. The front gets light when you turn in and away you go.

before the apex?:confused:

up in smoke
Sep 8th, 2008, 07:28 PM
I was trying to see that too....In your original thread you said you high sided, but then said your front tire tucked? Did you low side and then the bike caught and flipped you over?

wrong post or thread bryan:fryingpan: your talking about derik

up in smoke
Sep 8th, 2008, 07:39 PM
Yes throttle low side is when you come off of the brakes early then on the gas. The front gets light when you turn in and away you go.

just though about it . its a pogo. off the brakes rebound from braking gas it before done rebounding .front wheel pops up. its like how to get the front end up doing a slow wheelie on a dirt bike.

sPAnKy1600
Sep 8th, 2008, 08:04 PM
[ snapped the thottle open which lightned the front end and down I went]

low side from opening the throttle:confused2:

im pretty sure he means while in a turn or most likely coming out, and washing the front cause he still had a far lean angle when he got on the thottle...

makes sense that the little jolt the bike gets if you dont have a smooth transition on the throttle is enough to wash a front

up in smoke
Sep 8th, 2008, 08:10 PM
im pretty sure he means while in a turn or most likely coming out, and washing the front cause he still had a far lean angle when he got on the thottle...

makes sense that the little jolt the bike gets if you dont have a smooth transition on the throttle is enough to wash a front

on the gas loads the rear= slide= high side. chopping the throttle mid corner = front tuck=low side. this is in most circumstances. its the fundamentals of riding a motorcycle.

sPAnKy1600
Sep 8th, 2008, 08:21 PM
on the gas loads the rear= slide= high side. chopping the throttle mid corner = front tuck=low side. this is in most circumstances. its the fundamentals of riding a motorcycle.

you can still low side from gettin on the throttle... chopping the throttle in a lean makes you dive in more... but i wouldnt say its the main cause of a lowside..

yoageallen
Sep 8th, 2008, 08:31 PM
you can still low side from gettin on the throttle... chopping the throttle in a lean makes you dive in more... but i wouldnt say its the main cause of a lowside..
Closing the throttle can overload the front end and cause it to lose traction my dear watson.

up in smoke
Sep 8th, 2008, 08:34 PM
Closing the throttle can overload the front end and cause it to lose traction my dear watson.

:+1:

aaw749r
Sep 8th, 2008, 08:40 PM
I was trying to see that too....In your original thread you said you high sided, but then said your front tire tucked? Did you low side and then the bike caught and flipped you over?

No it was a low side. Fortunately I have never experienced a high side, they look painfull and costly.

aaw749r
Sep 8th, 2008, 08:47 PM
on the gas loads the rear= slide= high side. chopping the throttle mid corner = front tuck=low side. this is in most circumstances. its the fundamentals of riding a motorcycle.

If you load the rear you aare taking weight off of the front. If you remove too much weight there is not enough traction to hold the line.

The bike is also suffering from a throttle on lean condition. I need to tune it out of the power commander with the accelerator pump feature. Roll on the throttle and it goes lean for an instance so the bike is unresponsive until it picks back up then it hits kinda hard. This assisted in the downing but I did not want to make excuses for me going down, it was my fault. I knew of the issue and failed to compensate this one time and it bit me.

sPAnKy1600
Sep 8th, 2008, 08:55 PM
Closing the throttle can overload the front end and cause it to lose traction my dear watson.

i'm not saying it cant...

oh well.. just wait...

once i get to the track a few times....

up in smoke
Sep 8th, 2008, 08:55 PM
If you load the rear you aare taking weight off of the front. If you remove too much weight there is not enough traction to hold the line.

The bike is also suffering from a throttle on lean condition. I need to tune it out of the power commander with the accelerator pump feature. Roll on the throttle and it goes lean for an instance so the bike is unresponsive until it picks back up then it hits kinda hard. This assisted in the downing but I did not want to make excuses for me going down, it was my fault. I knew of the issue and failed to compensate this one time and it bit me.

:rolleyes:

yoageallen
Sep 8th, 2008, 09:30 PM
i'm not saying it cant...

oh well.. just wait...

once i get to the track a few times....I am glad you are finally making it out!

Calkidd
Sep 8th, 2008, 09:32 PM
i'm not saying it cant...

oh well.. just wait...

once i get to the track a few times....

im pretty sure he means while in a turn or most likely coming out, and washing the front cause he still had a far lean angle when he got on the thottle...

makes sense that the little jolt the bike gets if you dont have a smooth transition on the throttle is enough to wash a front

you can still low side from gettin on the throttle... chopping the throttle in a lean makes you dive in more... but i wouldnt say its the main cause of a lowside..
What would going to the track a few times do? Prove them wrong? I am affraid not. You go to the track with this mentality you will be picking your trashed bike up off of the track. Tony read Twist of the Wrist II.

Adrian is right if you chop the throttle in the turn (survival reaction #1) you will over load the front end.

Once you are in a turn and you crack the throttle ALWAYS crack or open that throttle. By doing this you are trying to achieve the 40%/60% weight ratio.

up in smoke
Sep 8th, 2008, 09:48 PM
"Adrian is right if you chop the throttle in the turn (survival reaction #1) you will over load the front end. "
dont give me any credit ,Mr T Hill:hail:

Kyles R6
Sep 8th, 2008, 10:25 PM
No it was a low side. Fortunately I have never experienced a high side, they look painfull and costly.

yes they are, all of mine were highsides. i seem to get on the throttle too hard too early:confused2:

poach
Sep 9th, 2008, 07:37 AM
to be young , dumb and full of *** .

Would you please stop ruining a pefectly entertaining thread with a bunch of silly facts?:pound:

Wile_E_Coyote
Sep 9th, 2008, 07:44 AM
low side from opening the throttle:confused2:

I was on positive throttle when I low sided.

sPAnKy1600
Sep 9th, 2008, 08:27 AM
What would going to the track a few times do? Prove them wrong?


no it will put me there next to him so i can kick him in the nuts:haha:

he's making it sound like its impossible to low side by being on the throttle...

i'm not trying to say you guys dont know what your talking about... i'm just backin the fact that being on the throttle CAN **TOO** (as in also, as in supplementry to what you guys said) cause a lowside

you old dudes should know that... you guys got tons of wisdom:pokeit:

poach
Sep 9th, 2008, 09:17 AM
In all fairness..it is, under very specific circumstances, possible to low side while on the gas.

An example:

Tight right hand corner...rider is trail braking hard prior to, and during the turn in point. We all know that application(especially vigorous application) of the front brake will cause a bike to "stand up"(or conversely, not want to turn in). Therefore, while trail braking into into the turn, aggressive input(or more-than-usual input) into right clip-on is necessary to overcome this effect. Rider simultaneously releases brake lever and cracks throttle open...and BAM!...he's just tucked the front and "lowsided".

What happened?

While the rider was compensating for the gyroscopic effect of trail braking, and using additional pressure on right clip-on to compensate...he failed to make the necessary pressure adjustment on the right clip-on when he released the brake. Thus applying too much pressure on the right clip-on and literally DRIVING the bike right into the ground.

Just something to think about...

sPAnKy1600
Sep 9th, 2008, 09:45 AM
In all fairness..it is, under very specific circumstances, possible to low side while on the gas.

An example:

Tight right hand corner...rider is trail braking hard prior to, and during the turn in point. We all know that application(especially vigorous application) of the front brake will cause a bike to "stand up"(or conversely, not want to turn in). Therefore, while trail braking into into the turn, aggressive input(or more-than-usual input) into right clip-on is necessary to overcome this effect. Rider simultaneously releases brake lever and cracks throttle open...and BAM!...he's just tucked the front and "lowsided".

What happened?

While the rider was compensating for the gyroscopic effect of trail braking, and using additional pressure on right clip-on to compensate...he failed to make the necessary pressure adjustment on the right clip-on when he released the brake. Thus applying too much pressure on the right clip-on and literally DRIVING the bike right into the ground.

Just something to think about...


SEE^^^^^^ wisdom! :)

poach
Sep 9th, 2008, 09:55 AM
Again, in all fairness, listen to these guys when you hit Thill Spank. They won't steer ya wrong.:)

Wile_E_Coyote
Sep 9th, 2008, 10:01 AM
I think the primary thing to recognize is that a chain of events happen prior to a crash. Each have a contributing factor. While I was rolling on the throttle when I low sided, it was not the primary (or sole) cause. I had also ran wide onto a part of track that had negative camber. I also didn't have great body position and was carrying more lean angle than I needed to for that given speed.

Oh yeah, and it was a right hand turn... :rolleyes:

Devlausdan
Sep 9th, 2008, 10:09 AM
In all fairness..it is, under very specific circumstances, possible to low side while on the gas.

An example:

Tight right hand corner...rider is trail braking hard prior to, and during the turn in point. We all know that application(especially vigorous application) of the front brake will cause a bike to "stand up"(or conversely, not want to turn in). Therefore, while trail braking into into the turn, aggressive input(or more-than-usual input) into right clip-on is necessary to overcome this effect. Rider simultaneously releases brake lever and cracks throttle open...and BAM!...he's just tucked the front and "lowsided".

What happened?

While the rider was compensating for the gyroscopic effect of trail braking, and using additional pressure on right clip-on to compensate...he failed to make the necessary pressure adjustment on the right clip-on when he released the brake. Thus applying too much pressure on the right clip-on and literally DRIVING the bike right into the ground.

Just something to think about...


Wow... that's exactly me!!

sPAnKy1600
Sep 9th, 2008, 10:54 AM
Again, in all fairness, listen to these guys when you hit Thill Spank. They won't steer ya wrong.:)



i know man... i just like being the lil smartass;)


like i said after all, you guys are full of wisdom


lol










... okay i'm done...

poach
Sep 9th, 2008, 10:56 AM
we're fulla something alright.;)

Calkidd
Sep 9th, 2008, 11:22 AM
"Adrian is right if you chop the throttle in the turn (survival reaction #1) you will over load the front end. "
dont give me any credit ,Mr T Hill:hail:I must appologize you too did say the same thing....I just like Adrian better:haha:

yella600rr
Sep 9th, 2008, 12:22 PM
This is NOT true.

A rider.
3 years racing WSMC.
2 years racing AFM.
2 AFM Four Hour Endurance Races.
I'd estimate between 100 and 125 days on track.

0 crashes.

It just depends on how far out on the edge you are willing to hang. Also, taking your time to come up to speed, overall and on any particular day on a track, is the most important thing to avoid crashes. When I started racing I was very happy if I could reduce my lap times by 1 or 2 seconds each weekend out.

Now watch me go out and crash on my next day at the track... go away bad juju....

+ MOJO for you dude! ;)

up in smoke
Sep 9th, 2008, 07:31 PM
I must appologize you too did say the same thing....I just like Adrian better:haha:

you like Adrian better because you now he will never be faster than you.

up in smoke
Sep 9th, 2008, 07:32 PM
we're fulla something alright.;)

we know what spankys full of.:D

yoageallen
Sep 9th, 2008, 09:25 PM
no it will put me there next to him so i can kick him in the nuts:haha:

he's making it sound like its impossible to low side by being on the throttle...

i'm not trying to say you guys dont know what your talking about... i'm just backin the fact that being on the throttle CAN **TOO** (as in also, as in supplementry to what you guys said) cause a lowside

you old dudes should know that... you guys got tons of wisdom:pokeit:You absolutely can low side on the throttle! All you have to do is spin the rear tire on a turn and don't ease off the throttle enough to gently regain traction. If you let off to much you will high side.

up in smoke
Sep 9th, 2008, 11:22 PM
ask serg, hes an expert.

ti2ttmatt
Sep 24th, 2008, 02:10 PM
you can still low side from gettin on the throttle... chopping the throttle in a lean makes you dive in more... but i wouldnt say its the main cause of a lowside..

Not to be a part of the crash police here but I just want to address this quote. Both parts of this statement are wrong. Feel free to consult any text out there or attend any school, or even a lowly trackday and ask any instructor. If you are on the throttle, there is an EXTREMELY low risk of low-siding. The ONLY way that it can happen is for the rear to spin out, the rider remains on the gas all the way through the crash, and the rider and bike have to essentially fall over at the same moment. If you crash on the gas 99/100 times you are going to high-side. As the bike steps out, the rider freaks out, the rider gets off the gas, the bike hooks up, and spits the rider up and over.

Chopping the throttle IS the cause of a low-side. This isn't even up for debate. As a matter of fact, other than the 1% mentioned in the other paragraph here, not having the throttle at least cracked open in the turns, preferably rolling onto it, or chopping the throttle in a turn are the ONLY causes for low-sides.

l8-apex
Sep 24th, 2008, 02:16 PM
:iagree:

Exactly right.

sPAnKy1600
Sep 24th, 2008, 04:00 PM
Not to be a part of the crash police here but I just want to address this quote. Both parts of this statement are wrong. Feel free to consult any text out there or attend any school, or even a lowly trackday and ask any instructor. If you are on the throttle, there is an EXTREMELY low risk of low-siding. The ONLY way that it can happen is for the rear to spin out, the rider remains on the gas all the way through the crash, and the rider and bike have to essentially fall over at the same moment. If you crash on the gas 99/100 times you are going to high-side. As the bike steps out, the rider freaks out, the rider gets off the gas, the bike hooks up, and spits the rider up and over.

Chopping the throttle IS the cause of a low-side. This isn't even up for debate. As a matter of fact, other than the 1% mentioned in the other paragraph here, not having the throttle at least cracked open in the turns, preferably rolling onto it, or chopping the throttle in a turn are the ONLY causes for low-sides.

thats what i said:confused2:

Calkidd
Sep 24th, 2008, 04:22 PM
im pretty sure he means while in a turn or most likely coming out, and washing the front cause he still had a far lean angle when he got on the thottle...

makes sense that the little jolt the bike gets if you dont have a smooth transition on the throttle is enough to wash a front


you can still low side from gettin on the throttle... chopping the throttle in a lean makes you dive in more... but i wouldnt say its the main cause of a lowside..


no it will put me there next to him so i can kick him in the nuts:haha:

he's making it sound like its impossible to low side by being on the throttle...

i'm not trying to say you guys dont know what your talking about... i'm just backin the fact that being on the throttle CAN **TOO** (as in also, as in supplementry to what you guys said) cause a lowside

you old dudes should know that... you guys got tons of wisdom:pokeit:


thats what i said:confused2:
No that is not what you said.

sPAnKy1600
Sep 24th, 2008, 04:28 PM
No that is not what you said.

i knew someone would actually take the time to do that:p :pound:

l8-apex
Sep 24th, 2008, 04:28 PM
If you feel any kind of a slide while in a corner (assuming you are already gently rolling on the throttle), I would suggest that the best thing you can do is nothing.... No changes in input, no changes in throttle, no shifting of weight, no heavy handedness on the bars; just relax and let the bike recover.

sPAnKy1600
Sep 24th, 2008, 04:30 PM
If you feel any kind of a slide while in a corner (assuming you are already gently rolling on the throttle), I would suggest that the best thing you can do is nothing.... No changes in input, no changes in throttle, no shifting of weight, no heavy handedness on the bars; just relax and let the bike recover.

see i under stand that... but wat about the front? when you feel it push a bit, cause usually it isnt subtle

l8-apex
Sep 24th, 2008, 04:36 PM
see i under stand that... but wat about the front? when you feel it push a bit, cause usually it isnt subtle


Same advice. If you chop the throttle in that situation you will most surely lowside. If you open the throttle too agressively you may break the back loose. If it's a slide that is possible to recover from, the bike will do it on it's own with no changes to inputs. If it still goes down then it was just a situation that was past the point of return and probably no way to recover from it.

Now if you sense a front slide and you are not gently rolling on the throttle, then just a little bit more throttle may help.

sPAnKy1600
Sep 24th, 2008, 04:44 PM
Same advice. If you chop the throttle in that situation you will most surely lowside. If you open the throttle too agressively you may break the back loose. If it's a slide that is possible to recover from, the bike will do it on it's own with no changes to inputs. If it still goes down then it was just a situation that was past the point of return and probably no way to recover from it.

Now if you sense a front slide and you are not gently rolling on the throttle, then just a little bit more throttle may help.

i'll have to be more conscious of that... but thanks i understand that alot better now

l8-apex
Sep 24th, 2008, 04:49 PM
It's all a lot easier to talk about than to practice it. When it's right you just do it without thinking much about it; and that comes from a good amount of time on the track.

ti2ttmatt
Sep 24th, 2008, 04:54 PM
Very good advice from l8 Apex... I don't remember which race it was but it was before Laguna Seca's GP... You can probably find it on You Tube but Colin Edwards had a save from this very topic that was past unbelievable during one of the practice sessions. His front end SLID, and I mean SLID, and he calmly posted his knee onto the ground, got into the throttle and saved it. It was such a nice save, and he knew it, that he actually played to the crowd afterwards and bowed!!

l8-apex
Sep 24th, 2008, 04:58 PM
Not as dramatic as Colin Edwards slide, but I had a similar experience during one of the AFM 4 hour races. Near the exit of the carousel BOTH ends started sliding. I just 'did nothing' but put more weight on my knee and the bike recovered. It was actually kind of fun....

ti2ttmatt
Sep 24th, 2008, 05:06 PM
Not as dramatic as Colin Edwards slide, but I had a similar experience during one of the AFM 4 hour races. Near the exit of the carousel BOTH ends started sliding. I just 'did nothing' but put more weight on my knee and the bike recovered. It was actually kind of fun....

Mmmmmmm... AFM 4 hour... Most fun I have EVER had on a racetrack. Did it my first year with 2 other rookies on my 750 and I think we got 2nd or 3rd to last in our class, but it sure was AWESOME! Really trying to get back into the racing scene but doing the trackday company, which was supposed to bring me closer to racing, actually has made it MORE difficult to get to the track other than at our days.

Either way, slide recoveries are always fun and the faster that I get, the more I notice that I lose the front pretty FREQUENTLY. I remember at a Pridmore school years ago when Jason was talking about Mat Mladin. He said that in discussions with him, he actually asked him, for the school's sake as I'm sure Jason does the same thing, how many times he tucks/loses the front in a race. Mladin's reply? "Every lap."

aaw749r
Sep 24th, 2008, 05:15 PM
He said that in discussions with him, he actually asked him, for the school's sake as I'm sure Jason does the same thing, how many times he tucks/loses the front in a race. Mladin's reply? "Every lap."

At that level, I'm sure!

Blakester
Sep 24th, 2008, 05:33 PM
My advice, is when you start to slide just grab more throttle and ride it out..:D

wsmc99
Jan 9th, 2009, 02:38 AM
Very good advice from l8 Apex... I don't remember which race it was but it was before Laguna Seca's GP... You can probably find it on You Tube but Colin Edwards had a save from this very topic that was past unbelievable during one of the practice sessions. His front end SLID, and I mean SLID, and he calmly posted his knee onto the ground, got into the throttle and saved it. It was such a nice save, and he knew it, that he actually played to the crowd afterwards and bowed!!

That was quite the save!
Saving the front end is all about shifting weight off the front end be it throttle application, more weight on your knee or sitting up to catch the wind and take the load off the front end.
If you low side from throttle application you spun up the tire or rode off the edge of it.

As for the original question: As I knock on every piece of wood in sight, 0 at track days. I never ride anywhere near the limit during them, it's not a race.

dsimpson
Feb 26th, 2009, 05:38 PM
11 track days, crashed for the first time last time out (Fontana, Jan 31, Group B)

Separated shoulder, tweaked thumb and over $1K in damage to bike.

A rider I was preparing to pass out of turn 6 (really tight, slow corner) low-sided and his bike ended up cross-wise across my line. I hit his bike and went ass over tea kettle. Just like the street (but to a lesser degree)...it isn't just yourself you have to worry about. One second sooner or later and I would have missed him completely.